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Author Topic: How to fix the fuel gauge...  (Read 1890 times)
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Wittsend
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« on: October 27, 2008, 11:32:23 AM »

You first have to ascertain which system you have fitted in your Land Rover. There were two totally different systems used by Land Rovers and they are not compatible and a previous owner could well have mixed & (miss)matched parts.
Series 2s and early 2As (before the black dash and negative earth came in April 1967 with chassis suffix D) used the moving coil principle.

Moving Coil Gauge
This type of gauge uses magnetism to move the needle. Inside the gauge is a coil which is connected to the supply terminals. When a voltage is applied to the terminals current flows through the coil creating a magnetic field. This field causes the needle to be moved by a varying amount. As the field increases the needle will move toward the maximum value indicated by the gauge. The field is linked directly to the voltage applied and the current flowing through the terminals. This value will depend upon the state of the sensor that is being used. Effectively the gauge is working as a simple voltmeter but “calibrated” as Full or Empty. This fuel gauge should work with either positive or negative earthed vehicles with no changes being required.
From 1967 on Land Rovers used the bi-metallic strip gauge.

Bi-Metallic Strip Gauge
The bi-metallic gauge operates using heat. Inside the gauge is a small piece of bimetallic material that is connected to the needle. Wrapped around this strip is some thin wire which gets warm when electrical current flows through it. This material is created using two different metals bonded together. These metals expand at different rates when they are heated. This causes the material to bend as one metal expands to a greater length than the other.
This gauge needs a constant voltage supply to maintain “accuracy”, this is supplied by a unit call the voltage stabiliser which puts out a constant 10 volts, no matter the state of the battery/charging system.


Looks something like this, a metallic canister about 1” long, usually mounted on the back of the speedo and also “works” the temperature gauge.


You can see a neat animation of how this system works HERE


The Tank Senders

Regardless of the gauge used the type of gauge the fuel tank senders are basically the same. You have a simple float arm that operates a wiper on a resistance wire. This causes the voltage to vary (or the current in the bi-metallic case) which moves the needle on the gauge.

As mentioned before, you can’t mix & match gauges and senders…


This is the S2 early 2A gauge/sender - moving coil type.


Here is the later 2A setup - bi-metallic strip type.

Aside from these differences petrol and diesel tank sender are different.
The diesel sender has a low fuel level warning position that activates a warning lamp on the dash panel. It is more important NOT to run out of fuel with a diesel engine, as you have to bleed all the air out of the fuel system. This can be a tedious job on a dark wet night at the side of the road with no spanners.


This shows the later 2A senders, petrol and diesel.

These senders are readily available from parts suppliers from around £15 plus post. You’ll also find that “generic” senders will possibly fit the tank and “work” the gauge. Unfortunately the early sender is no longer made, although you will find NOS from the specialist suppliers, but at a price. It is certainly worth trying to fix the older senders.

Unfortunately I only have detailed info for the later sender, but the principles should be same. The resistance readings could well be different.

Fixing the Fuel Sender

Having checked all the obvious external electrical connections (remembering that the tank needs a good earthing connection to the chassis) and that the voltage stabiliser is working, the only conclusion left is that the tank sender is faulty. You should have a resistance reading of about 260 ohms full and about 24 ohms when empty.



This picture shows the 2 terminal diesel sender unit. There are tabs round the side which hold the 2 halves together, prise these open. It will be impossible to separate the halves until one of the terminal connector strips (E) has been de-rivetted. Before dismantling a cleanup of the unit will help keep things clean and tidy, a Dremil mini drill with wire wheel is very good at removing surface corrosion. The petrol sender is basically the same, without the parts in the RH section and the extra wiper arm (B) which activates the low fuel lamp on the dash.

(Although the picture shows the later type sender, the principles for repairing are the same for the earlier types)

Be careful not to loose the float arm (G) tensioning spring - seen stored in the section on the right. In this unit there are 2 wipers, one for each function - low fuel and fuel level. The low fuel wiper (B) is intact and OK. It makes contact with wiper board C and 'earths out' at position C, switching on the low fuel warning lamp. The fuel level wiper should be below arm B and is missing. This will have to be replaced onto the float arm. The fuel level wiper board has been damaged at point D. This will have to be re-wired. You will need approx 3.5 metres of resistance wire to give a winding of around 260 ohms resistance. Ordinary wire will not do, as it has been designed to have as low a resistance as possible! You need wire that has a resistance of about 80 ohms/metre and a wire diameter of 0.2 mm. Once wound onto the former you may have to remove the insulation/varnish in an arc under the wiper arm, to allow for electrical contact! If you are lucky only one or two turns of wire may be broken and they could simply be soldered together again, else it's a re-wire. To remove this board you will have to drill out the rivets at the positions of A. One end of the wiper board (live) connects to terminal F the other end is earthed through the wiper arm and the body of the sender.

However, the wiper arm itself could have fatigued and fallen off, as is the case here. You will have to make a new wiper. Most model shops sell lengths of springy brass strip for a few pence. Cut & fettled to size a new wiper can be soldered to the float arm (G), you will have to judge the right amount of tension to give contact without wearing the resistance board!

On assembly the case can be closed by bending back the tabs and soldering up the rivet heads at points A.

You may find this link useful HERE


One thing though – all this sits in petrol, or worse vapour – so why doesn’t the tank blow up with all this electricity connected to the sender  nixweiss

 :-X
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 09:19:39 PM by Wittsend » Logged


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Davidss
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 09:31:04 PM »

A useful post for someone with a 'was petrol, now diesel' vehicle who will eventually have to make the fuel gauge work, thankyou.

" ... all this sits in petrol, or worse vapour – so why doesn’t the tank blow up with all this electricity connected to the sender  nixweiss"

Is that a serious question, or a rhetorical one?
IE, You already know the answer, the question is just for effect, to provoke thought /discusssion.

Regards.
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Wittsend
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 06:55:59 AM »

A muse...




....but a serious question as I can't be bothered to Goooooooooogle it or look in Wiki  nixweiss
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 08:59:22 AM »

A muse...
....but a serious question as I can't be bothered to Goooooooooogle it or look in Wiki  nixweiss
Neither can I, but neither do I see the need to research outside my general knowledge, though others may view it differently.

We know, from general knowledge, that the petrol to air ratio in the cylinders needs to be within a fairly tight envelope. 14 parts air to one part petrol is good, 15:1 is too weak, 13:1 is too rich (for reliable ignition). This is with a purpose built, high energy, fire starting system which produces in the region of 20 thousand volts, creating a spark across a gap of ~25 thou (~0.6mm).
I contend that the air: fuel ratio in the fuel tank is always much too low (too much fuel, so a low number, like 5:1), so the vapour is difficult to ignite, plus the 'fire starter' is only ~12 volts, with the current limited by the other components in the circuit. (5:1 is not a statement of fact, merely an example).

Overall then, two reasons the system doesn't ignite, a wholly inadequate ignition system coupled with an atmosphere that is difficult to burn, through lack of oxygen.

The same principle lies behind the ability to safely run electric pumps in the petrol tanks of more modern cars.

HTH.
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Wittsend
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 09:40:30 AM »

That's done it - I just had to go and have a look... your explanation is basically sound...

See HERE for more info and

Here
for more fun...

Remember folks - don't try this at home....


 :-X
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sijeffrey
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 06:30:24 PM »

Hi, just got my gauge working (old type). Here's how I connected it....
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gromit
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 03:30:53 PM »

I just bought my first S2, so this is all new to me, but I have the following problem;
The fuel gauge in my 1961 SWB is totally unreliable; when the tank is full the meter goes not above 3/4 and when it hits 1/4 the tank is empty (I found out the hard way!)
Where do I look to fix it - in the senderunit or in the gauge itself?

T.I.A.
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 10:22:38 AM »

My 1970 2A the petrol fuel gauge when the tank is fuill only shows half full. I have tried all fixes without success
I now when i fill up i set the trip to 0000 and when it reaches 100 miles i know its time to put in another £20 worth.
 
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 07:57:05 PM »

Wow, you must have one of those rare reliable speedo's then.  neener
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swampy2
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 09:56:03 PM »

My sender looks like the one below, but only has a spade connector on the LHS.



My dashboard/gauges are all in bags, how can I tell if i've got the type the need the 10V regulator.
There is something that looks similar fixed to the bulkhead, but don't know if it works.

MArk
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Wittsend
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 10:01:50 PM »

Later gauges (that need the voltage stabiliser) don't have the arrow head on the pointer.

Look at the pictures ^^^

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swampy2
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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 10:18:11 PM »


Thanks

Will look for the pointer then
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swampy2
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2010, 10:00:10 PM »


My sender looks like this (but with one terminal)


My gauge looks like this though


Have I got a missmatch that won't work??

Mark
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 05:44:45 PM »

Yes, those are miss-matched.

The good news that your gauge is the later type, for which the senders are still available.

Unplug the cable from the sender, and connect it to a good earth - if the gauge reads full, then it just needs a new sender fitting (£15ish).

Save your current sender - they are now un-obtainable new, so someone is bound to want it.
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swampy2
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 08:47:48 PM »


Thanks for info John.

Will sort out a new sender then.

Gauge wont indicate anything, as Swampys not got any wiring at moment.

Cheers
Mark
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« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2010, 11:01:02 PM »

I have a question...below is a photo of my sender, it would appear to be a diesel unit, how much of a problem is this considering i'm running a 2.25 petrol? The gauge worked (ish) when i bought her in early Feb but has decided to go on strike along with the rest of the dash dials. Included is a picture of said lazy dial just for good measure.



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Wittsend
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2010, 11:34:53 PM »

OK - that's the late 2A gauge, negative earth from April 1967 onwards.

It should be run with the voltage stabiliser.
That the temperature is also not working, suggests a faulty or disconnected stabiliser or a fault in the power supply to the instruments via the stabiliser.

That you have diesel sender is no problem.
The extra terminal is for the low fuel warning lamp. You could wire up this feature or swap the unit with a diesel owner who would like one  nixweiss
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 12:16:42 AM »

Excellent, that puts my mind at ease. I may well hook up the low fuel light as it is a useful little feature although this may have to wait as there are much more pressing issues with the wiring (it is all knackered!!) such as speedo.

Cheers for the help.  eclipsee_gold_cup
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 02:34:57 PM »

Is the ohms range for the early type sender known? I've got three that are all close and range from not a lot to 80 odd.

Just wondering if it's worth investing in a new gauge which seem to be still available.  cheers_man
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Wittsend
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2010, 02:00:23 PM »

Quote
Is the ohms range for the early type sender known?


It is now:-



This is  - has to be, the oldest Series 2 tank sender - it's from sweep-1

The wiper is a Y-shaped contact that runs down each side of the coil.

The useful range seems to be from 10? at the empty end - going up to about 180? at the full end of the scale...
Half full seems to be about 60 ish ?

Quite a clever device this, compared to the cheaper 2A later unit....

 RHD
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swampy2
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2010, 07:30:42 PM »


Mine was like that, just sold to a new owner for him to fix.

Cheers
MArk
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2010, 10:44:38 PM »

Thanks Wittsend, not exactly what I wanted to hear but it's something to go on. At least I'm getting a reading from one end to the other of the wipe so it doesn't look like there's a break in the wire. Funny how the readings are nearly all the same on mine, maybe my meter needs new batteries  whistle

Quote
Mine was like that, just sold to a new owner for him to fix.

Which sucker did you sell that to then?  cheers_man
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2010, 10:55:33 PM »


He He!!

I'm sure its an easy fix, you'll be glad when you've done it!

Mark
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